We all know that homeopathy is really stupid, just like most alternative medicine. However, when I saw this “lecture” by Dr Charlene Werner, I was astounded by the depths of stupidity that she is able to attain. It’s almost like she’s a kind of Superheroine of Stupidity, with the special power of creating a singularity of stupid. This is of course stupidity that’s so extreme that it tends towards infinity and temporarily makes all reason disappear into a black-hole of scientific incompetence. Wow.
Bottom-line: if you have a brain-cell or two and you care about it, stay very far away from homeopathy. It will make you stupid too.
Update
They pulled that specific video from youtube, probably because they were concerned about Dr. Werner’s reputation going even more to the dogs than it already has (but not as much as it deserves). Fortunately, the video has been mirrored:
Shocking. What kind of a “Dr” is she anyway?
I had a quick look, she seems to be some kind of optometrist, and she’s also into light therapy *gag*. I can safely assume that here “Dr” comes from the well-known WTF University, also known as the International School of Stupid.
Did you have a personal bad experience with light therapy? I have a personal healing experience with light and vision therapy. If it works, is healing, and there is absolutely no ill effect whatsoever, what is the problem??
It’s being sold and promoted as something that it’s not. The more people believe in this type of hogwash, the easier they are to mislead with other and more insidious types of hogwash.
The fact that it might have helped you most probably (and this is a very high probability) has to do with the placebo effect.
When a child cannot team her eyes together to save her life and is unable to comprehend everything she struggles to read it leaves that child in a hopeless state with no self esteem. After 3 months of eye therapy she was able to pick up and read and understand ‘Lord of the Rings’ Trillogy. And, in the next year read and comprehend Algebra. That, sir (or mam if the case may be) is NOT a placebo effect!
In the field of Science, if we humans accept some studies as valid and reject others because we personally believe they are ‘hogwash’ we limit ourselves as a whole. Somewhat like throwing the baby out with the bathwater senerio. OOPS…I forgot…our society does that already…
Your claims about “studies” being discarded because we think they are hogwash has no basis whatsoever. Studies with good methodology are all taken into account, whether they concur with our expectations or not. Bad research is discarded. Simple as that.
We scientists (yes, I get to call myself one) are the first to admit that a hypothesis is invalid if the evidence points in the other direction.
The single case you mention does not count as a study. There are numerous other effects that together with the placebo effect can lead people to come to incorrect conclusions about alternative therapies.
You know, even bad research, if you are truly a scientist, should not be discarded. It should all be regarded in the whole scheme of things. Remember the theory of spontaneous generation? OH yeah, that was disproved, right? Why then does most science base their structures upon the big bang theory of evolution? Life coming from no life? HMMM? My views are obviously different from yours and no need to make yourself ill over that. However, your vendetta against Homeopathy is truly disturbing. Physicians and Homeopaths should all be on the same team…for the purpose of healing. I am not totally against regular medicine either. There is surely a place for that.
The plural of “anecdote” is not “evidence.”
Why do you say Homeopothy has not been studied under the Scientific method of study? My research tells otherwise. Or have you already ‘crossed out’ these small amounts of study?
Meta-analyses have shown that homeopathy contributes nothing over the placebo effect. Please check your Lancet back-issues.
“A little knowledge is a dangerous thing”
Your silly conclusions about the relevance of the “Big Bang Theory” and that of “spontaneous generation” are so specious as to be truly ridiculous in nature. You have repeated demonstrated in your posts that you have VERY LITTLE KNOWLEDGE and are therefore VERY DANGEROUS!
People generally recover. It might have nothing to do with the placebo effect. Because you survived doesn’t necessarily mean that the treatment is good or harmless, even if it seems to be so now. Even if your treatment was harmless, having that attitude toward medicine in general is unhealthy and opens the door to the malicious while letting in the benign, merely stupid variety. It also dilutes the distinction between bogus and real science. If that isn’t obviously bad, it at least is bad in that it will lead to side effects and is a waste of resources on every level.
Solid scientific proof should be the only standard for medicine. Everything else is careless of human life. You may find her theories spiritually or philosophically meaningful, and that’s fine. You may find that she improves your life in other ways. But if you think she is in on medical secrets, let her show us the proof. Until then, let us call your faith ill advised.
I guess she was kicked out of the Tell & Sell Univ since she has nothing to tell or sell, Stand up Comedian Univ since she is totally not funny, Univ of Life since she has no understanding of life and now she is escaped she is looking for an audiance, any audiance since she on the search to find Karl Rove. Am I close to a reasonable explanation
I have personally been treated by Dr. Werner. I found her to be a warm, caring, humane individual, (qualities which I find admirable – espe cially in a physician) as well as professional and competent in her work. She takes the time and energy to explain to her patients complex theories and processes in simple lay terms, facilitating their understanding and increasing their comfort level. I found it very refreshing and reassuring, and sadly lacking in many other physician’s practices. I have had numerous treatments and surgeries in a variety of settings for a variety of ailments over the course of my life, but I can honestly say that I have never had a more efficient and effective healing result from any treatment. You may think and say what you will about Homeopathy, Dr. Werner, and all of the other “Dr. Werners” out there practicing the healing arts in a similar manner. That’s your right. But I say thank God they are there, and God bless them all!
Thank you for your comment.
It may very well be the case that she is a warm and caring person. It may also be that she explains “complex theories and processes in simply lay terms”.
However, in the posted video it is apparent that she has absolutely no clue what she’s talking about. Especially the part where she claims to “cross out” the mass in E = mc^2, thus yielding “light equal to energy” is 100% pure bullshit. This is not explaining complex theories in lay terms, this manipulating the facts (very badly) to suit one’s own dubious ends. My beef with that is that she presents it as the truth. From the rest of the video it’s patently clear that she has absolutely no idea what she’s talking about. What really makes my blood boil, is that she is wilfully misleading anyone who’s willing to listen, and this includes people like yourself.
In the best case, the homeopathy and other alternative medicine aspects of her philosophy are a waste of time and money (notwithstanding the placebo effect), in the worst case they are downright dangerous and could even be fatal. See more here: http://www.skepdic.com/homeo.html
In short, I am all for real physicians approaching their patients in a more humane way. However, I am absolutely against any and all forms of alternative medicine.
First of all, Dr. Werner never said she ‘crossed out’ mass entirely from the equation. Her statements were such that the amount of mass is infinitesmally small in comparison to the amount of energy focusing upon the fact that energy is the major factor to be dealt with in the medical field.
She even made the crossing out motion with her hands.
Even if she didn’t, her “reasoning” that the mass is infinitesimally small and therefore light is equal to energy is utter bullshit. The fact that she says it with so much conviction just makes it worse.
I’m getting nauseous all over just remembering this.
Did you ‘listen’ to her words? She did say,’almost’, not ‘completely’. Her explaination is for the purpose of focusing upon LIGHT and VIBRATION in the equation in that these are the parts of the equation that the medical field deals with…NOT the mass. Mass, in other words, is merely the ‘conductor’ for light and vibrations. BTW, the use of cursings is really unnecessary.
You cannot ever use the E=mc^2 equation like she does. Never.
It has a very very specific application and purpose. When one manages to transform mass to energy, for example in a fusion reaction, the formula can be used to calculate the *exact* amount of energy given off, in units of Joule. The ‘c’ is not light, but the speed of light, a constant factor. I repeat, it does NOT represent the presence of light in any way! Please read this, then read it again.
Any other use of this equation, especially that of Dr. Werner, is a travesty and only serves to illustrate the ineptitude and stupidity of the user. The fact that you are harping on about this is also reflecting badly on your abilities. My suggestion would be to save face by stopping here.
Yes, light is a constant factor, and in fact without the presence of light the speed of light would be non-existent. Is this a reasonable statement? The scientific idea of the speed of light could never be used without the existence of light. Where would energy be? Virtually nil. life as we know it would be non existent. In grade school science we learn that life requires light and without it nothing exists…everything dies. Is this true? Your formula is correct, however, your connections are missing.
The concept of “speed of light” is merely a NAME given to traveling at the speed of approx 184,000 miles/second. I can call it “Speed of Superman” for all I care..even though there is no superman! And you’re linking this equation to presence of light and life and blah..which is all a whole ball of WACKO!
ENERGY does NOT depend upon light! Light is a phenomena. It is just the visible spectrum of electromagnetic waves. Energy can be released as any frequency of electromagnetic waves that are in NO WAY light!
And you CERTAINLY cannot get to – “life needs light to survive”, from the equation E=mc^2.
I hope you never mention the points you said here to your friends, family, teachers, or potential employers – EVER!
that video really hurts my head. and what really hurts my head is the fact that there are people who support her bad doings like mr. antelope…
I’m not going to offer a defense, but I will note that one thing I’ve observed is that homeopathy tends to succeed in making people feel optimistic and more positive. This HAS been shown to improve recovery rates, well, I think it has. I’m pretty sure it has but I’m not about to get digging on the citations and references here. I think it should be something everyone with sense can agree on, but I recognize the poor form, especially on this subject.
Anyway. What I wanted to say was it sure would be nice if we could find a way to increase positive feelings and that sense of optimisim without charlatanry and bald-faced lying. The things send in this video are appallingly stupid. They are not something anyone should consider in any way valid.
But I know that this woman has probably helped more than a few people feel better, and I suspect she is not maliciously intended. Just like how in industry action outstrips ideas 1000:1 in value, the outcomes she is generating are worth something.
But good god damn I hope if I ever say something that stupid my own hands strangle me to save the universe the trouble of arranging a piano to fall on my head.
@1pizzagirl:
“the big bang theory of evolution” teehee
I really can’t continue this discussion with you. Good bye!
WEll, I perfectly agree to disagree. However you like.
It’s not a matter of agreement. If what you are talking about is true, its effect would be measurable and repeatable. That’s all science is! It’s not some dusty tome of what ideas will be accepted and what won’t. It simply says “hey, that’s an interesting idea… let’s test it!”. Nothing you are talking about is supported by evidence. Your rant about the speed of light and its “connections” proved that you really have no clue. Put simply, this kind of magical thinking hasn’t really helped you or anyone else and it should be left in the dark ages where it belongs.
Pizzagirl, you really are very funny. I suspect that you’re either Dr Werner or you’re having a laugh doing a bit of trolling. If you really do believe that any of Dr Werner’s talk makes sense then you need to just get back to school and get an education. You are very funny though!
“If you add that to the theory, Einstein’s theory of relativity, we have E = mc^2 , but mass is crossed out almost, and strings”
Epic failure
@ 1pizzagirl
Think about this. If the mass m is infinitesimally small, and, the speed of light is constant and finite, then using the equation E = mc^2, the energy E necessarily has to be infinitesimally small. The implication that one can ‘almost cross out’ the mass term due to being infinitesimally small and expect to keep the c^2 term that is multiplied to it, and then say ‘energy is the speed of light’, is incorrect.
Furthermore, one can not introduce strings to Einsteins theory of relativity as ‘vibratory’ degrees of freedom, and imply that ‘E = speed of light + strings’. This is incorrect.
It is clear that ‘Dr’ Charlene Werner has completely misunderstood the equation E = mc^2.
It’s not at all clear Charlene W. has misunderstood the equation. She might understand it quite well and simply be choosing to misrepresent it so she can make some money. Whether she is a smart fraud or an ignorant, well meaning, confused fraud isn’t for me to say. Six of one….
@yodod
By George I think you’ve got it! Pizzagirl is the nefarious Dr. Werner. The syntax and complete misunderstanding of general relativity seems to match the woman in the video. Oh, and Charlene, deep sea vent chemosynthesis has proven that you don’t always need light for life to flourish, just heat, water and the right organic compounds.
Don’t feed the troll, it just gets bigger…
For the sake of you who have no idea what science actually is, and who have no interest in giving up your ignorance, the total mass of the universe is somewhere in the order of 1 x 10^50 to 1 x 10^60 kg. This is quite a large mass, and not really irrelevant, so you can’t cross out the mass term from E=mc^2.
As another explanation for why people think homoeopathy works there is a phenomenon called “regression to the mean”. When things are at their worst they can only get better, right? And when do people turn to alternative “medicine” (of course it’s not really medicine, it’s just bullshit)? When things are at their worst! Ta-da!
This is certainly the longest speech i have ever watched where the speaker does not even vaguely get get close to being correct……about anything…..even accidentally.
If you insist on being a homeopath, religious, or something else completely ridiculous don’t attempt to back up your useless magical claims with mathematical and scientific theories and equations that have nothing to do with what you’re talking about.
I would take more heed of what she said if she claimed she was going to cure me with dragon’s blood. At least i can’t disprove that quite so easily as everything that crazy “Dr” just said.
If my 4 year old daughter was this retarded i’d have her neutered.
All I have to say is, WOW!
This Woman managed to undo more than a hundred years of sound science in under 10 minutes, simply amazing.
Two points that are hanging around in my mind are,
The equation E=mc^2 is just that, a statement of “EQUIVALENCE”. Proven to be true and sound through exacting and laborious study and testing and review. If a person simply “almost cross out” mass you end up with an “almost equivalence”, something that is simply absurd.
How can the formula “Energy = 184,000 miles/second” make any sense whatsoever? Or for that matter the eqution, “Energy = almost mass x 184,000 miles/second” make any sense?
She has no grasp of logic or even simple mathematics (which is what this is). Regardless of what she wants to say she will end up with nonsense everytime….
and this leads to the second issue, and one that plagues all the homeopathic pseudobable crapolgies… and that is…
They have no measurable standards much less testable standards….
Oh, and by the way….
Steven Hawkings (Hawking) did not invent string theory….. the work of Leonard Susskind suggested this conjecture… and it is still JUST conjecture.
***correction***
“How can the formula “Energy = 184,000 miles/second^2” make any sense whatsoever? Or for that matter the equation, “Energy = almost mass x 184,000 miles/second^2” make any sense?”
I stand corrected….
I had no idea what homeopathy was before watching this video, but just assumed it was the same as natural medicine or something. From the outset, when she asked the audience if they had high school chemistry, her point was obvious. Asking you if you have had chemistry and if you know what H2O is are unrelated questions; ask an 8th grader or a patient in a mental institution what H2O is and they’ll know the right answer. The point of the question is to make you think that you’re smart by answering questions affirmatively, and to condition you to believe her and agree with her because she starts off saying something you know and agree with, even if it is totally elementary. Classic con-man skills. The same is true of asking if you know who Einstein was…
From there on, her speech is 100% gibberish. Yet she’s conditioned you to nod and agree, so you act like it makes sense. The bowling ball thing is factually wrong but also totally irrelevant. The E=almost nothing*c^2 thing makes no sense and has a units mismatch. “String” theory is relevant how? Vibrations? Everyone vibrates to an animal, vegetable, or mineral based on what again? My, oh my…
All of the naysayers of Homeopathy or anything else they have zero experience with, have one thing in common, they are the same inept, subjective fog horns who thought the Earth was flat. One scientific “fact” after another has fallen by the way side, as objective science has caught up with and dispelled their “beliefs”.
If you care to actually research the subject in doing a comparative with regards to Homeopathy, please investigate the placebo effect in the world of psychiatric drugs. Conventional and double blind trials have shown repeatedly over the last 40 yrs that the placebo effect hovers between 48-50%. Oh by the way the side effects of most all ssri’s includes suicide.
If Homeopathy is a joke why does the FDA regulate the medicines used? If it is dangerous why is it the second most used system of medicine in the world?
@R. Nash-Shannon: Your comment doesn’t really deserve it, but I’ll take it apart in any case.
1. The whole of objective science is directly opposed to homeopathy. You don’t give any references whatsoever, I’ll do slightly better and give one of the too many examples: Try and get the August 2005 issue of the Lancet. It won’t be easy, because you’ve probably never actually seen or read a scientific journal before in your life, and hence don’t know where one finds these things.
2. The placebo effect: This is the whole point. Homeopathy is no better than the placebo effect. Let me put it another away: The placebo effect exists regardless of whether the homeopathy quacks are involved or not. Let me put it another way: Homeopaths are con-men and -women who are making use of the placebo effect to sell their wares and mislead people.
3. The FDA regulates homeopathic medicines to protect idiots from homeopathic idiots that are selling things that mostly have no effect whatsoever, but can sometimes be dangerous.
4. The fact homeopathy is popular does not say anything about its efficacy, it merely says that homeopathic con-men are doing a great job at promoting their wares, helped by the fact that they mostly don’t have to do any kind of trial WHATSOEVER to prove the efficacy of what they sell, unlike real medicine.
Now go read http://www.skepdic.com/homeo.html and then please don’t come back.
Even on a good day you are a mediocre person and the predictability of your response makes you nothing less than an automaton or a tool.
Why is your FDA letting so many people be exposed to such dangerous medicine? Your reference to any Homeopathic patient being an idiot is classic. Darwins only dr was a Homeopath.
Every time you breathe, Aristotle rolls in his grave.
Please stop wasting oxygen.
Dear R. Nash-Shannon,
Your weak ad hominem attack (you really should consider focusing on your day job) indicates that you really don’t have a foot to stand on.
Bye-bye now!
Poor form!
You reveal in your SECOND post both the inadequacy of your reasoning skills and your ignorance of logical fallacies….
Of course I think we all knew what was coming once the first post was written…..
Go study for a bit before posting again and perhaps you can avoid demonstrating your embarrassingly shameful logical skills so vividly.
You have been weighed, measured and found wanting on all accounts.
The statement,
“(Charles) Darwin’s only dr was a Homeopath”
Is COMPLETELY false, and demonstrably so.
In addition it is a perfect example of at least three different logical fallacies as used in this discussion.
RNS
Why is it that when I read your posts, I can only imagine them to have been written by Dr. Zachary Smith? Oh, and the Aristotle bit was priceless. Oh, the pain, the pain!
I’m new to the skepticism game but I’d like to say bravo on this page.
Until earlier this year I was a fence sitting agnostic but Derren Brown and Richard Dawkins tipped me over the edge. Since then I’ve been consuming popular science and skepticism ever since, like “A Brief(er) History of Time” (Well, I am a beginner) and “Irrationality”. I’ve run out of money for now so my Amazon “saved for later” list is filling up on Sagan, Randi, Goldacre et al.
I’m currently reading Why Does E=mc^2 and Why Should We Care. I’ve just finished the Why Should We Care chapter so I’m approaching the end. I want to read it a second time to really grasp it all. But I’ve gleaned enough to know the specifics of Dr Werner’s quack talk. I’ve actually seen it before after reading “ABHoT” so I knew it was all crap anyway, But Brian Cox’s Why does E=mc^2 is rather more illuminating on the equation itself.
I haven’t even finished it but I would highly reccomend it to Pizzagirl, and Dr Werner (provided she doesn’t know and isn’t abusing knowledge to sell some snake oil)
I’ve decided to give myself a slap on the wrist for being too lazy to credit Jeff Forshaw as a co-writer of Why Does E=mc^2 and Why Should We Care?
So anyone who is unclear and wants to digest what professors have to say on the equation (as opposed to a homeopathist) should check it out.
Why Does E=mc^2 and Why Should We Care?
Brian Cox and Jeff Forshaw
I love the misunderstanding of Grade 2 math. Zero times anything = zero. Therefore if Mass is essnetially nothing, doesn’t that make Energy essentially nothing?
E=MC^2
But M = (almost) “0″
Therefore E=0*c^2
Therefore E=0
QED. What an idiot.
You forgot to propagate the “almost”:
E = (almost)”0″*c^2
E = (almost)”0″.
Then, sprinkle in a little pixie dust, and a heaping tablespoon of logic errors:
E = (almost)”0″ * P
E = (almost) “infinity”
E >= 32767
3+2+7+6+7 = 25
25 = My GF’s age
My GF drinks water.
Water is called “H two Oh” by sophisticated people who have a background in chemistry (Dr. Werner says so!).
Therefore, water has memory and homeopathy works.
Cthulhu, thought you were going to give up on this thread. I’d forgotten it. (this isn’t you, PZ, is it?) You have to realize that defenders of this kind of stupidity, like pizzagirl are not only blazingly ignorant but they are most likely willingly stupid. Like fundamentalist christians they choose to remain ignorant and will bend reality around the few firing neurons they have in order to maintain their desired view of the universe. There is NOTHING you can do or say to convince them differently. They either lack the basic intelligence to understand the facts or they willfully choose to remain ignorant, which is pretty much my definition of stupid. The “Dr”, however, is in a class unto herself in my opinion. It’s the single most stupid sounding diatribe (again…just my opinion) I’ve ever heard that isn’t based on some religious insanity.